How to generate feedback: Discuss youth ministry

If you don’t mind, I’m going to emulate Richard Abanes for a moment. The major difference is that this will be done on my own blog and not on yours. And just as I am having a little fun regarding Mr. Abanes’ commenting methodology, I will discuss a thing or two about comments and how to get them. Especially comments from those who usually “lurk” or read blogs and comments but prefer never to make their own opinions known. Also, grab a cup o’ joe if you plan on reading this post through. It may take awhile to read it all, due to the “Abanes Factor” which usually involves long posts with multiple quotes. If it helps, let me just say that I have never been in a dance class, as anyone who went to High School with me can attest.

Historically, my blog has had the most feedback generated when discussing anything related to youth ministry, especially when I suggest that there just may be a better way to serve the youth. Maybe it’s just me, but I can discuss virtually anything and come away unscathed, but if I dare to offer suggestions in this department somebody is bound to spring up and say that I just don’t know what I’m talking about. Looking back at my posts, I don’t think that I come across as one who wants to tear down. Just as the reformers had no original intention of destroying the mass, I have no intention of destroying a ministry. I would just like to see it reformed a bit.

For those who can’t remember what they had for dinner last night, I posted some thoughts on youth pastoring and an alternative, code named: P.A.R.E.N.T. P.A.S.T.O.R.I.N.G. after reading Dan Edelen’s 21 Steps to a 21st Century Church. His series was one that would force anyone reading to consider what he was suggesting, whether you agree or not, and Dan is very good at making you think, one reason why he is on my blogroll. There were points that I applauded and some where I could see potential, but was curious about implementation. The point he made about youth pastoring struck such a nerve in me that I decided to use that post rather than the one about how the church needs to:

        6. Develop a holistic Christian worldview
               and
        5. Restore the importance of the Scriptures

which are both found here and are both excellent entries. Dan is correct that worldview is the buzz word today, and a Biblical worldview is to be found only in the Bible. Why did I go with the topic of youth ministry and not two of my favorite discussion topics? It is because the way we perform our ministry will be driven by our worldview, whether that worldview is Biblical or not.

After elaborating on the concept of a redeemed family, I had two confirmed youth pastors comment. One seemed to favor the idea, but stressed that the whole church would need to get on board. The other, that being Glenn, didn’t seem to be quite so supportive of this concept, labelling it as unworkable and doomed from the start. He did say that it was a great theory, but that it belongs in the realm of theory and not in reality. Why? To quote him, “we live in a world with messed up people.”

This gets right to the matter of worldview, doesn’t it? My worldview is that all of creation came into being by the command of God, who created everything for His enjoyment and that He may further display His glory. This original purpose seemed to be destroyed beyond repair when mankind sinned against God, causing all kinds of misery and evil to reign throughout creation. Therefore, it is the duty of all to resume our task of doing all that we do to the glory of God. In doing so, we seek to redeem our culture and world from the effects of our sin. The Bible does say that those who are without faith are unable to please God, so those who are saved by God, and are redeemed from lawlessness, must model the love of Christ to this dying world by living out the gospel message and proclaiming the redemption offered to all who will believe. That is a nutshell version, but is workable for this post. This paragraph will be used as a reference for the rest of what I have to say today.

Let’s hear from Glenn, whose words will be taken directly from the comments he left at the end of the post. Any quotes that are not scripture will be from Glenn.

I’ve given the parent pastor ideal a shot, but in reality (at least in the context of where I minister) it’s not even worth trying to “shift the paradigm.”

A lot of the teens and children in our youth ministry come from highly dysfunctional homes: divorce, abuse, parents in jail, living in hotels, drugs and alcohol, etc. Quite frankly, the parents could care less about God; so how do you pastor parents like that? They’re just happy someone else will take their kids off their hands for a few hours every week.

Glenn, the paradigm has long been shifted! Once upon a time, society understood that parents were (and still are) the ones responsible for raising their children. I can understand why a pagan society would want a daycare to be considered the finest way to bring up a child, allowing the mother to work outside the home and claim a place of primacy even over that of her husband, but the Bible is very clear that it is up to the parents, especially the fathers, to raise their children to fear the Lord and to keep His commandments. If we are to impart a Biblical worldview on those who look to us as a model, we do not have a choice but to remain obedient to the teachings of scripture. That includes the way that we go about performing our ministry as well as the things we say.

Exodus 25:8-9
And let them make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell in their midst. Exactly as I show you concerning the pattern of the tabernacle, and of all its furniture, so you shall make it.

I use this verse, not to say that we must tear down churches and erect tabernacles, but to show that from the beginning, God has been very particular about how we are to minister to Him. Look to Cain and Abel, how one was accepted and the other rejected. Look to Saul, who decided to perform the sacrifice before going into battle because he was unwilling to wait for Samuel to arrive. God demands that we follow His way in all things, especially those things that are defined as a ministry. If we are going to minister to kids who have been victimized by the fruit of lawlessness, what better way is there than to model for them one whose worldview is truly sufficient to navigate the world? And what way is that? It is the way of the Bible, which demands that children are to be taught by parents with the help of the church. For those who do not have the luxury of parents who will raise them to fear and to love God, their plight is met by discipleship from the church. As a youth pastor, you may find yourself at the front lines of this task, but biblically it is the duty of the church to do this, whether you are the point man for this task or God brings up another for the child in question.

But what I as a youth pastor am responsible for is to show these kids the love of Jesus Christ. I am responsible for imparting to them Truth from the Word of God. I am responsible, as their pastor, to disciple them in walking with God, facilitating opportunities for them to serve the Lord, and building within them a Biblical worldview of themselves, life, and their Creator.

Amen. But this role you have accepted does not interfere in any way with the parental responsibilities. The sin of the parents who do not believe does not place this responsibility on you either. The agreement you reached with the church where you serve is the documentation that says that you are to be the primary contact to the kids. If parents are willing to let you take their role from them, and I am not saying that you are forcing it from them, then they will answer to God. The best way for you to build a Biblical worldview within them is to let the word of God transform them into fishers of men. Perhaps they could lead their parents to Christ, perhaps not. That is truly not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to take those whom the Lord has entrusted to you and to fulfill your ministry in obedience to God. If you can persuade parents to take an active role in their children, you will have done a greater thing than if you step in and take over the role of parent.

I do not say this lightly, but if you look to the account of the Fall in Genesis 3, you will notice that the first thing the serpent did was convince the woman to deviate from the role given her by God. She was to be a helper to Adam, but she led them both into sin by taking the lead after she was deceived. There is an order to life, created by God. If Satan had tempted the man, he would be acting against his nature by accepting the order that God placed over the original unit of society, the family.

I take Dan’s suggestion as extremely idealistic and out of touch with shoe-leather Christianity. Now, I guess if I had the time, like Mr. Edelen, to lounge around on a “nascent farm while (laboring) on The Great American Novel,” I’d come up with this kind of idea, too.

You say this suggestion is idealistic? You don’t think this way is compatible with reality? Remember, you are the one who introduced worldview into the conversation. If a worldview that demands that parents lead their children to a knowledge of the truth is not compatible with reality, than I’m in serious trouble. If shoe-leather Christianity is a Christianity that does not seek to redeem the very first thing that Satan attacked, than you are wearing the soles of your shoes out by walking around in circles. The church teaches the Bible for several reasons, and one of these reasons is that the word of God is the most powerful tool that we have for transforming lives. See Hebrews 4:12 for scriptural support to this statement. But the teachings of the Bible need to be demonstrated in our lives, and if you think you have a better idea, how do you hope to convince the kids in your group to adopt a Biblical worldview? You model not only the worldview, but the fact that it is the only worldview that allows you to remain consistent in word and deed.

OK, we can all take a break now. This is my response to the first comment left by Glen. Why don’t we all stand up and stretch before continuing with my response to his second comment. Grab a snack if you like. For some reason, nachos are sounding good right about now. With extra salsa. Here’s Glenn once again:

First let me offer my appreciation and liking of your blog. I think it’s cool and you have some pretty good stuff going on around here.

Thank you for the civility. We may have a disagreement, but we do not need to get into some sort of flame war. I am watching how I phrase my comments as well, in order to be loving toward you by proclaiming truth. I will repeat what I have said before, that my intention is not to tear down but to build up, and I pray that my words and my tone reflect this.

In regards to my comment about the youth ministry, it’s simply a matter of looking at the issue from another perspective. I’m unaware of your experience in the youth ministry, so I won’t assume either way. I just know what’s going on in my mind as I work with young people on a weekly basis.

I am not a youth pastor in the sense that I have not been given a position in a church to lead the youth group. I am a parent who does his best to speak of the things of God to my son as often as I can, and in ways that he will understand and will benefit him the most. I am an AWANA leader, in the middle of my third year. I am a man who enjoys sitting on the floor with the kids before the service to eat cookies and juice with them. I show them that they matter to me and tell them that they matter to God. There may only be a few pastors in a church, but everyone who has been set apart by God should accept the role of minister as we minister to one another and those who God places before us. We have an ideal to shoot for, as defined by my world view. That ideal is the garden of Eden, where man once walked in the cool of the day alongside God. It is our task to redeem this world with that backdrop on our minds, knowing that we will never be fully successful. The final victory will happen after Jesus returns to judge the living and the dead. Until then, we are called to be obedient to God by living our lives in submission to His authority.

I don’t believe that God called us to be instruments in redeeming the family unit. I believe God called us to be instruments in preaching the Gospel to the lost, period. Jesus said that there would in fact be division among family members for the sake of Christ. Although I do place a high emphasis upon family, I’m working in a context where “family” doesn’t necessarily exist.

I don’t buy this. Not for a moment. You said earlier that a part of your job is to build a Christian worldview in the hearts of your students. A worldview is comprised of three essentials. 1. Creation How did we get here? In what state were we in? 2. Fall What went wrong? Why is there suffering in this world? What is the underlying source of conflict? 3. Solution How is this suffering corrected? What must be done in order for the world to be made right and how do we fit into this correction?

2 Timothy 2:1-7
You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him. An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops. Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

I demonstrated earlier that the very first thing Satan attacked was the role of the family, which led to the sin of eating the fruit which Adam and Eve were commanded not to eat. We preach the gospel to the lost as instruments in the hands of God, but if we determine that our goal is done as soon as someone makes a profession of faith, we ignore so many commandments of scripture. What are we being redeemed from? What are we to be doing once we have been granted repentance and faith? According to the Bible, we are to share in suffering as a good soldier of Jesus Christ, whose aim is to please the one who enlisted him. Jesus won the war by His suffering, death and resurrection. We join the battle in a mop up role.

One person commented that I should praise God for the parents who drop their kids off at church, even though they don’t come themselves. The problem with this is the fact that our church members pick up 70 – 85% of the youth who are in our program. (We average between 30 – 50 children and teenagers during Wednesday evenings.)

Are these church members who pick up a majority of your group the parents of these kids? I honestly don’t understand what this means. If they are the parents, good for them. If they are transporting children of unbelievers, wonderful! In that case, they are loving the children by modelling a worldview that places instruction in the church above their own convenience. I only included this portion of your comments to be fair to you, and to not misrepresent what you have said. In this spirit, I will also display the remainder of this second comment:

You replied with a comment that states:

Can you be successful if you only get to love the kids for an hour or two a week, while the rest of the time they are in the chaos that sin has made of their lives?

I feel this greatly minimizes (trivializes?) the work that we do here for the Lord. I believe that we can be successful if we are faithful to God’s Word and are consistent with reaching out to these kids through the love of Christ.

Again, it’s a difference of perspective.

Please forgive me if I have upset you by this discussion. I am not trying to undercut what you are doing. The intention of that comment was to show why the current standard model of youth pastoring is one that is fundamentally flawed. You minister to the kids for a few hours a week. The rest of the time, they are infused with a worldview that is contrary to the one that you seek to show them. No youth pastor is given enough time with the kids to win the battle of the mind. That is a primary reason why parents must fulfill their own ministry to their children! The role of a youth pastor, if there truly is one, is to aid these parents as best as he is able and to serve those children who do not have this luxury as best as he can. There is nothing trivial about your calling to redeem a vital building block of culture, that being the next generation.

To be successful, you need to be obedient to the standard of the scripture. How you go about that may be subject to your perspective, but do not forget that another word for perspective is view. You perceive the world according to your worldview. If a Biblical worldview is important, than your methods are equally important. Lengthy attempts to reform the worldviews of the children under your care through other means will only lead you to disappointment and the eventual decision that your calling has changed to another pastoral role. If and when that change takes place, do not enter into it for the sake of leaving the younger generation, but enter into it as a way to continue to serve some of these same kids as they mature into adults, complete with a worldview that is Biblical and has been lived out before them.